i may not know alot about the US policies on txes and other things but the war to me is a clear indication of the way bush thinks.

A question. how can a man who calls himself "the war president" (on TV), who spends billions of dollars on fighting a country that is not a threat, and makes millions in the process be tolerated. there have been many reports that have stated that iraq's nuclear weapon and other weapon manufacturing facilities were destroyed years ago. yet bush LIES to the country and the UN and scares his fellow country men just to unite public opinion. if he hadn't used all that money on this bullsh*t war, you guys wouldn't be talking about budgets and how to decrease tax. the money was there, but he spent it on something useless. oh and let's not forget all the soldiers who are either dying or loosing body parts as we speak. they are not fighting and dying for their country. then what tyhe hell . are they dying for?????

That comment made me sick to my stomach[/QUOTE]

Andrew,  The deficit was increased significantly during Reagans time in office with "Bush The First" in his administration.  Clinton was the first president to try and reduce it...  I don't know where you get your information from but check it.  When I was your age I was against the Vietnam War and I am against this war.  We did not have the right to invade Iraq even if everything Bush belived was true.  War is plain WRONG, there were other ways around this.  Yes we now know of other issues with other countries doing wrong when it came to Iraq and possibly the family of the UN leader as well but that's life.  We were not defending ourselves we were forcing our belife on others with a preemptive attack.  Now don't get me wrong I think Saddam was a tyrant but it was not our place to remove him.  Some forigen People think Bush is a tyrant do they have the right to come here and attack us?  Is the world better off without him in power?  Don't think so not with higher gas prices, an increase in terroism and significant ecological damage from the burning oil fields among other things. 

And another thing yes Kerry personally does not belive in abortion but he is not going to force that belife on others he also may not belive in gay marrage but he's not going to force that either.  He belives that the government should not tell people what to do with thier private lives.  That's all I'm saying is don't force me to do what you want bielive in and I don't.  Otherwise I'll have the right to force you to do the things that you don't want to do.  Right?  Please let everyone live in peace and harmony...

[QUOTE=drumingpyro]Bush is messing up this c**try 2 much.  If he is realected our c**try mite end up like the ones we are fighting.[/QUOTE]

thats the funnest typo yet 

[QUOTE=SBL1]So then, when someone in power thinks abortion is perfectly fine, and passes legislation that supports his beliefs, I'm guessing you think that's just fine, right Steve?

In your ideal society, everybody would be free to do whatever they wanted whenever they wanted. Abortions all day long....drugs legal and available everywhere.....prostitution on every street corner.....sexually explicit images on large billboards lining public streets....this list could go on for days.

The point is this: A civil, lawful society MUST legislate (or in your words, "force") certain morality-based "belief systems" on it's citizens, or you end up with extreme moral decay (like ancient Rome) and a society gone totally out of control.

Also....During Ronald Reagan's presidency, we spent an ENORMOUS amount of money on weapons. That's what the COLD WAR was all about!!!!!! That's why we had such a large deficit. When the cold war ended, the deficit began to correct itself. Bill Clinton didn't do that . I'd say the end of the cold war was worth every penny of that deficit, wouldn't you?[/QUOTE]

Not at all Lee.  My point is that I belive there is a moral level which most people agree with.  My problem is when "religon" gets involved.  The Bible is a good guide to living life but can be, and has been many times, twisted by the interpretation of "religious" leaders.  (It's ok to bomb abortion clinics, it's ok to suicide bomb innocent civilians to prove a point, it's ok to kill, enslave and tourture everyone not like you ALL DONE IN THE NAME OF GOD). The Catholics don't belive in birth control so should the pill and condoms be illegal?  The same applies to the abortion subject everyone has a different opinion as to when life begins so is your opinion better than mine?  So why shouldn't an individual be allowed to choose based on thier beliefs?  Murder is wrong there's no way around that and the Bible says an eye for an eye, but some coservative religious groups, as well as, liberals groups belive that the death penalty is wrong so it's been removed from some states and weather you belive it or not has had an effect on crime rates..  How can you presume that because I'm against someone forcing a religous belife on me (which is why we came to this country to begin with) makes me an anarchist?  ( I also belive that it is wrong to say you support abortion and legislate it, I belive that you can legilate and support someones right to choose what they do in any situation)

Now yes cold war... I don't think that years of excessive spending and huge profits for those industries really won the cold war.  The Russians were doomed to fail and any true Marxist , socialist or communist who is also a realist could have told you that it would fail for basic humanistic reasons (we are not all the same and eventually someone would tip the cart over either quitely or with a civil war).  It may have come sooner than later but we were all supposed to be reducing Nuclear arms for a while before that which ment both sides knew better.  You don't attribute the end of the cold war to Reagan just because it hapened on his watch do you?  If so then which president caused it? 

BTW I'm am not disregaurding your opinions or beliefs just trying to make you understand mine.  See I know where yours comes from  and discuss the issues with both sides because I don't belive either is right.  I enjoy this freedom of expression.  Maybe it causes people to think about every aspect of each issue which is all I'm looking for.  I hope it makes people realize that if they want to legislate based on religous beliefs, that they are offending others rights by doing so.  My belief is that people should be able to choose the correct choice for them at that any time and as long as it is not affecting others directly and not damaging anything.

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f**k Andrew and his 10 line rule... It's politics

We can go round and round more, so let's not

Just as an FYI I have used the ACLU in the past to protect my rights that our govenment keeps taking away from us...  I sued at one time because a part time bussing tables job required me to piss and I was clean but thought what I did on my time was my business.  The ACLU took that case for me... (Settled out of court)...  I'm not sure that they really are as nasty as you make them out to be.  They want fairness for everyone and want the government out of private lives and I'm all for that....

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